Gresham Cash aptly concludes this edition with an excerpt from his interview with artist, Lucy Orta.

Lucy Orta creates socially engaged art exploring body, community, and survival through textiles, performance, and collaboration, empowering marginalized groups via participatory, sustainable practices. She often collaborates with her partner, Jorge Orta, as Lucy + Jorge Orta.

Gresham Cash: As the older person in Lillian’s class, I proposed that I would like to talk to somebody about having a family and being an artist and how that actually works. Because I’ve just had my first child with my wife. She’s a beautiful girl named Auden. We’re living in Paris now. My wife’s a filmmaker and I’m an artist. So, I was admiring you and your partner’s ability to work together for so long on so many diverse projects. And I was just hoping to get a few words from you about the challenges of this. Do you have suggestions for how an artistic couple can navigate life once a child enters the mix?

Lucy Orta: I don’t know whether it’s advantage or disadvantage, being an artist, being both artists. And it sounds like you and your partner are artists. You know, we don’t necessarily have obligations, going to work at nine and coming back at six in the evening. So there’s flexibility in the arrangement. And I think that’s been the most important part of raising the child is to be able to share that.

Although, of course, it comes with a lot of difficulties because we don’t have a fixed income; and there’s stress; and the constant anxiety about being able to care for this child, this being that’s come into the world and you’re now responsible for.

But I think the aspect which was the most difficult for us was the international profile and having to deal with the demands of that–on keeping the profile active, being responsive to exhibitions or commissions or opportunities that come along. Of course, that’s our income and that’s how we care for our family. I think one of the big advantages of being in France is that there are support systems for families, particularly for women. There’s also assistance, aid, and support for artists. When I had my first two children there was no maternity leave, it was absolutely impossible to not go back to the job the next day. But these days as a freelancer, self-employed person, or an artist, the Maison des Artistes and Urssaf now offer pathways through financial support during that period. So I mean the practicalities of that are really significant.

In terms of raising kids in Paris, the support system, the creche, the nursery arrangements are reasonable and at the time I think they were means tested which means that they’re based on your household income and the cost of it is reduced and that’s hugely significant if you compare that with the US where there’s nothing. It’s exorbitant and it’s not worth the family working or one member of the family working. It’s actually financially better for one family member to stay at home rather than to send their child to a creche. So, those are really difficult decisions to make but it also depends on your professional trajectory as an artist and if you want to give something up in favour of caring for the child as opposed to taking it to nursery. On the other hand, I think the nursery experience for all of our children was incredible. The services are high quality. Also, the au pair system in France is fantastic. There are legal routes to employing au pairs. At the time it was informal, now it’s become formalized, which is great. And so, take advantage of that because so many people can benefit, both the au pair and the family.

I’m thinking holistically in the environment that we are in France–how cared for we are as carers of our family and children. I’m not sure about the other care sectors. Well, it certainly already seemed very complete in France.

GC: My wife’s just started to add some work: emailing and getting back on board as a director. And even just having a little help a few times a week, that’s very affordable. Our friends at home can’t even imagine.

LO: There are even more systems set up now with different media platforms and apps that are available. There’s a legalized system now in order to support workers, home workers, and informal workers that didn’t exist before.

GC: But I suppose when you were starting your family and were doing big art projects and you were based in France, the UK was still a part of the EU, correct? What’s your advice in general for our pretty international group of students? If you feel like France, as an example, is the place to be as an artist and you find your resources here and you find your people here and you start to understand the network here.

LO: Jorge deliberately left Argentina because it was a career choice. And as far as Europe, I don’t know whether Paris was the best place to be at the time. A lot of Argentinian artists went to the States and other places, but I don’t think we fully navigated the French system because a lot of our work is international. But then in France, there is a state support system for artists, and artists can be quite comfortable within that system if they do know how to navigate it. I know it doesn’t exist in the States. But yes, there are advantages and disadvantages to being in France.

I think as foreigners we sit comfortably in and out of both of those systems. We do have the potential to have international careers because we have networks in other countries and also because we’re fluent in English. Notwithstanding that’s the lingua franca across the world in terms of the arts. Even if we’re decolonizing, it’s still present.